More on the student/teacher ratio

This part of a note we received indicates that even the 25 to 1 student to teacher ratio is not accurate.

 …this might be used to get rid of trouble teachers, since they are not “firing” anyone so do not have to go by seniority. Also this is a way to balance the budget in a year when surplussed teachers cannot find a permanent position.
The text/twitter universe is abuzz as many teachers stomachs dropped out when the robo call was made.
Also one teacher has 5 out of 6 classes that are way over the 25 limit as of today and is probably true for many, since counselors and others who have no students are figured in the 1/25 ratio. It’s all smoke and mirrors for getting money and balancing the budget.
What will it take to get our government officials to tell the truth?
We deserve better
Brutus

16 Responses to More on the student/teacher ratio

  1. American Imperialist says:

    Just reading the comments on this one post very clearly demonstrates that teachers and school administrators are not worried about educating children at all. They are vehemently against any measure of performance and attack anyone who questions their mantra of ever-higher pay. The United States would be better off without public education as it has become a money pit where only the school employees benefit while the children get very little in terms of education.

    The only statistic that should matter is how many children grow up to be functioning members of society. I interviewed a 22 year old early college graduate last week who could barely read a paragraph Of text.

    How does someone who can barely read make it through early college high school? Their teachers should be fired, not given raises.

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  2. Mike Schwartz says:

    I had not seen the CREED report before your link. I do not disagree with any of it. However, it offers generalities and not specific actions. For example, an 8th grader is doing poorly in all core classes but is still passed onwards to high school. Ideally, one would retain the student, change teachers and have the student try again. Reality- the parents run to pupil services because their student is being discriminated against, bullied, lied about, (you make up the excuse here). Pupil services asks about the social emotional learning initiatives at the school and which ones were used to make the student feel good. The principal looks bad. The teachers get the message- pass them no matter what.

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    • Anonymous says:

      So again teachers are the victim. They can’t be held accountable for student performance on STAAR, SAT, ACT, Or TSIA. That is the fault of the parents who are not teaching their child. They can’t be held accountable because of large classes even though they apparently have had smaller classes which is how the ratio is increasing yet scores were low,they have no input in the curriculum as that is developed by the rich 1%. The original comment by anonymous was arguing that people argue more about teacher pay than the job they are doing. All that has been highlighted on this thread is how inconsequential teachers are based on the factors listed above. Perhaps the argument should be made about how great teachers are and what they can influence instead of painting them as helpless ineffective individuals because if that is the argument how can you justify keeping them or lying them more.

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  3. Anonymous says:

    There seems to be a lot of self-serving information being passed to “demonstrate” that the school district is somehow conspiring against teachers and/or teacher pay. What are the statistics for these districts that would warrant ANYONE being more concerned about how much the teachers are paid vs the extremely poor job being done to teach children? This constant mantra that teachers are underpaid should be replaced with the factual existence of extremely substandard teaching resulting in an undereducated population.

    The best example of this are the sewing shops that moved here who could not find 100 young workers who could learn to use a sewing machine. The rest of the world can get literal children to sew but in El Paso only a small fraction of high school graduates could grasp the subject matter and perform.

    The issue of public entities being able to demand wage increases is a ridiculous notion, as is the inference that no teacher can ever be fired for any reason, nor can their pay be cut. This is simply asking for poor performance while rewarding failure.

    This is how you get almost $700 million dollars in bond spending for a shrinking, poor performing school district that cannot balance a budget, while the majority of district workers scheme against the district and taxpaying public. This kind of behavior should not be tolerated, much less rewarded.

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    • Mommataughtmetosew says:

      “…the extremely poor job being done to teach children?” Provide facts to back this up. Extremely?

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      • Anonymous says:

        http://www.creeed.org/uploads/6/8/1/4/68144655/60x30_el_paso_summary_report_with_notes_-_jan__2017.pdf

        STAAR passing rates at the Approaches level compared to the percent of the questions students have to actually get correct to pass.

        STAAR passing rates at the Masters level.

        % of students scoring at a college ready level for both SAT and ACT.

        TSIA scores.

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        • Mommataughtmetosew says:

          Very familiar with these scores.

          So you rely only on the STARR test to grade student performance and teacher performance and parent performance?

          Where do parents fit into this? Are you willing to state that parents do an extremely bad job of helping teach their children?

          I agree the rates are low and this needs to be addressed by the EPISD Administration. Smaller class sizes would help, such as 1:14 as a limit. This means not surplussing teachers but keeping them all and reduce class size.

          While we at it, “The issue of public entities being able to demand wage increases is a ridiculous notion, as is the inference that no teacher can ever be fired for any reason, nor can their pay be cut. This is simply asking for poor performance while rewarding failure.”

          Back this up please. Which public entities? Who says no teacher can be fired? Who says pay cannot be cut? So you believe that the parents of EPISD students ask for poor performance and agree to rewarding failure? Again, back this up.

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          • Anonymous says:

            So if you are not using STAAR, SAT, ACT or TSIA scores what do you propose using to measure student performance.

            As far as parents I didn’t bring them up…you did. In a perfect world parents would be involved in their child’s education but the reality is that is not always the case. That does not exempt students from learning and performing and teachers working to meet those needs. Surely you are not implying teachers can only do well and have high performing students if parents are involved.

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          • Anonymous says:

            There are several small classes that have horrible passing rates. It seems to me it is more about the quality of instruction as opposed to the number of students in the class. Otherwise we should see some phenomenal performance indicators based on the fact that there are so many “extra” teachers since they are increasing the ratio.

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    • Anonymous: You might want to try to keep in mind that it is not really the teachers who control the curriculum, even though some teachers get to sit on the committees that decide these things. The reality is that curriculum is controlled by the legislature, TEA, and politicians, all of whom have personal agendas that heavily influence what is to be taught. That is where the dumbing of America has come from. The rich 1% do not want the masses educated, you know.

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      • Anonymous says:

        So nobody should be held accountable for performance based on any measure because classes are crowded, all test measures are inaccurate, parents are not involved and teachers are just helpless victims as they do not set the curriculum. Oh and it is the rich 1% fault. As the original comment states, all anyone does is complain about how teachers are underpaid. Given the weak responses it is no wonder teachers are underpaid. Performance is based not on teacher quality but parent involvement, class sizes, curriculum not impacted by teachers and the evil 1%. You all have just supported the point that teachers are overpaid, have no impact, don’t teach anything except what they are told to and should not be held accountable by any measurable assessment.

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      • Anonymous says:

        John you really believe all teachers follow a curriculum and never deviate from it? They are not sheep who follow blindly verbatim what is provided. Once a teacher closes the door they can teach what they want and how they want. Please don’t assume all teachers are mindless followers.

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  4. Mike Schwartz says:

    As only a middle school teacher with a wife teaching high school classes, it seems pretty accurate. Where did the 25-1 ratio come from? I believe, and could be wrong, that student teacher ratios only applied in lab-based CTE courses, and elementary. I haven’t been able to find anything else that mandates 25:1 in middle school or high school core classes.Electives? I’ve seen middle school band classes of 50. Class balancing? had classes of 8, 12 10, 25, 25,35,35.
    When EPISD tried to do away with continuing contracts, it left many teachers with term contracts, year to year. Getting rid of “trouble teachers” now is simple. Non-renewal and they do not have to give any reason. Budgeting? I guess if you force continuing contract teachers to retire or out by surplussing them, you save money when you hire new teachers at the lower scale.
    Anon- I await your insight and wisdom. BTW, I retired.

    Like

  5. Anonymous says:

    How can you be certain that the writer of the note is any more trustworthy than the government officials? Just asking.

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    • Anonymous says:

      They don’t appear to be trustworthy as counselors are not included in the ratio. Just do an open records request to see how the ratio is calculated. You might be surprised when you see who is not included.

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    • Anonymous says:

      They don’t appear to be trustworthy as counselors are not included in the ratio. Just do an open records request to see how the ratio is calculated. You might be surprised when you see who is not included. Also, the writer contradicts themselves saying it is a ratio and then later saying it is a limit. There is no limit for class size in grades 5 and up. There are recommendations for science labs and constraints for occupancy based on room size. The ratio of 25:1 is exactly that, a ratio. Some classes will be smaller and some will be larger.

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