I found this on the official site of the El Paso Chihuahuahas:
El Paso citizens approved $500 million in “Quality of Life” bonds, including the building of a state-of-the-art baseball stadium nestled in the heart of downtown to be completed for the 2014 season.
Mistaken
We know that the statement is wrong. The baseball stadium was not voted on by the citizens. It was not part of the “Quality of Life” bonds.
Whoever wrote that is either clueless as to what has been happening in El Paso or is trying to change history.
Move on El Paso
Some say that we should stop talking about how the ballpark came about and come together to support it.
Personally I’m inclined to think that supporting it at this point is the right thing to do. Without our support the situation will become even worse.
As far as stopping talk about how this was foisted upon us, I disagree. We need to remember this and see to it that our current and future city officials don’t get away with something like this again in the future.
We deserve better
Brutus
elpasospeak 
Brutus,
You are totally correct. The valid distinction you are making is that if we don’t learn from our mistakes, we are doomed to repeat them. What are the lessons we can take away from this experience? How is it to be prevented in the future?
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I ask the same questions, but as long as the wording in the ballots is manipulated taxpayers in El Paso will not be able to join forces to fight corrupted officials. It is very obvious that Ms. Wilson, Mr. Hunt & Mr. Foster continue to manipulate the truth. Unfortunately, taxpayers in El Paso have no authority to stop these individuals from lying, Which government agency has jurisdiction over this matter?
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It’s not even just the wording that was manipulated. It was the entire process. The decision to build the ballpark was made behind closed doors as were the deals with council members who supported it. The only decision left to voters was whether to push the cost to hotel guests or to pay the cost themselves.
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You say things can only get worse if we don’t support the ballpark. But the consequences of supporting the ballpark is validating the city’s decision to do this without voter approval, and the message will never be sent that the city council needs the citizens, not the other way around. It will take something huge to get the voters attention, and the ballpark failing, and the city having to raise taxes and gouge the tax payers will be the only way the citizens will start standing up for themselves.
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This is one time the big dog should stay on the porch and let the little dogs have the run of the park, but that’s your choice old boy.
To reiterate part of a comment I posted yesterday, supporting the stadium is simply donating more money to the Foster and Hunt personal fortunes, not reducing your tax liability.
The city receives a miniscule share of the ballpark revenue, so more attendance does not insure that additional tax dollars will not be spent to subsidize this for-profit enterprise. Mountainstar takes the lions share (probably 99%) of the operating revenue related to the ballpark and ancillary income streams.
The way the deal is structured certain game day operating expenses will hit the city budget regardless whether we support it or not. We’re going to pay more to subsidize this for-profit business regardless whether they fill the stadium on game nights. In fact, the more successful they are, the more we will likely pay as Mountainstar demands more and more support services from the city. Since the city is saddled with ballpark maintenance costs, the more wear and tear on the stadium, the more we’ll spend and those costs are disproportionate to any income we might might receive from a few incremental ticket sales.
So I might as well keep what I would spend at the park to help pay my taxes. Or I will use that money to support a local business that is truly trying to build something on its own and not on the the backs of taxpayers? Those are the people who truly need and deserve our support.
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I understand your point.
By the way, the sports group has to pay for a lot (most?) of the operating costs. Of course if they do not maintain the park well, the expenses will end up as capital expenses and then we will have to pay the bill.
My big concern is what will happen if the team loses money. Will the sports group declare bankruptcy and leave us with an empty stadium?
Then again that might be a solution.
Brutus
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This conversation is reminiscent of “too big to fail” policies which resulted in the bailouts of the Wall Street people who created the financial market catastrophe of 2008 and who then benefited nicely from the bailout.
It’s ironic that this ballpark is being funded with tax dollars for the benefit of two self-proclaimed conservative, free market capitalists. We’re seeing that the only value that matters to some is the value of their own personal bank accounts.
People give money to build monuments to themselves and put their names on buildings. Maybe we need an empty ballpark to remind us of the dangers of greed, hubris, special interests and the disenfranchisement of voters.
Truth of the matter is, however, is there are plenty of El Pasoans who could care less about how this whole deal went down or who is footing the bill. They simply want to be entertained.
If Mountainstar cannot make money given the sweetheart terms of their agreement and their total control of the ballpark for both baseball and other events, then they deserve to fail. However, they wouldn’t be the first successful business people to fail because they start to believe that their success in one business assures their success in anything and everything they choose to do. In this case, however, they’ve stacked the deck and off-loaded so much of the cost and risk that their success is virtually assured.
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One of our family relatives used to have an expression whenever she thought somebody was doing this…she’d say, “you’re talking thru both sides of your mouth.” Tha’t s what you’re doing here, Brutus. You now want us to support the ballpark because things could get worse, yet you state the importance of not stopping the talk of how this happened and not letting officials get away with it or ever do it again. You cannot have it both ways, sir. One contradicts the other. The blatant lie that you reveal about the QoL election is a conscious, deliberate attempt to change the facts by those who have deceived, misconstrued, and misrepresented the truth time and time again since the initial ballpark idea was foisted upon us, and they will continue to do so because it has worked … except for those who are courageous enough to stand up and speak the truth and never, ever let it be forgotten. The ballpark will always be a testament to the underhanded, corrupt, and dirty politics that big money interests can and will use to get their way.
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Mamboman,
I understand your point of view.
Please know that I am not asking anyone to take a particular course of action. I was only sharing my personal thoughts at the moment.
Once again my fear is that if the sports group somehow defaults, we will be left with a big hole in the ground.
Then again as some have commented maybe that would be a good reminder of what they have done to us.
If I could ask anyone to do anything it would be to ask that we do a better job electing our public representatives.
Brutus
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The team’s website statement that voters approved the ballpark is a lie, plain and simple. Mountain Star will hear from me and I suggest others send their comments as well. I am willing to let bygones be bygones but a lie is a lie.
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I bet the Chihuahuas voted for it! We will have to wait to see what happens at this point good or bad. The peeps did not vote but the politicos did…
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Note on the CC agenda today that the usual suspects are pouring money into Noe’s campaign coffers. Noe, like Niland, is very much in the steal-the-city faction that reports to the Shadow Government (along with Wilson) so there must be some concern that he is vulnerable to a 74% knockout punch next election. That would upset a lot of apple carts out there in the District 5 sprawl zone, not to mention the downtown giveaway zone.
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In reality, most of the politicians like Niland and Ortiz, who are backed by special interests, aren’t worried too much about re-election. A lot of money can be made by special interests just during one term (e.g., the ballpark, development decisions, etc.). Many of those who run for office under the auspices of special interests anticipate, probably correctly, that their representation of special interests will benefit them even after they leave office, when the reciprocity or payback cannot be classified as a kickback. Serve one or two terms —- do the bidding of the special interests while you’re in office —– then get business from those special interests after you leave office. Is it any surprise that John Cook wanted to immediately become a lobbyist? It’s the American way. That’s reality.
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Agreed. I’ll be watching for some cush, six-figure job offered to Wilson for her “cooperation.”
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Stop messing with the poor. Making them believe in change or hope is cruel. Nothing will change ever. From the pyramids to the ballpork, nothing has changed or ever will. The rich win, everytime, all the time.
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